Category Archives: rural medicine

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Comparison of cost of abdominal CT with and without contrast

I keep reading that the US Health System should be a “free market” with competition.

To have an free market, one needs to be able to check the prices. I want to compare price tags. I have a patient who needs a CT scan of the abdomen and pelvis with and without contrast. So can I, as a doctor, find out the price?

I start making phone calls:

I call AIM Specialty Health, a procedure clearing house hired by many insurers here, to get prior authorization for the CT of the abdomen and pelvis with and without contrast. They ask for the usual identifying information: my name, tax id, NPI number, patient name, insurance number, check my address, phone number, fax number. They ask for theICD-9 codes — codes for the diagnosis. I know those. They ask for the CPT code, which is the procedure code for the test. I have to scramble to find the book and look it up: 74178. With the brain MRI the other day they volunteered site specific charges. Not this time. The representative said they didn’t know. I asked for prior authorization in Poulsbo, since that was most reasonable for the brain MRI. I asked what the patient’s copay is: AIM does not know.

Call to Premara Blue Cross, which is the patient’s insurance company. They can tell me that the patient has a $10,500 deductible each year. She will have to pay that much before the insurance pays anything. I ask them what it will cost at different sites. They say they can’t give me that information.

Next I call 5 different sites to get the price for that CPT code/proceedure.
Call to my local hospital: Charged amount is $4200.00
Call to a free standing radiology clinic in Poulsbo: Charged amount $1416.00
Call to the hospital in Bremerton, south of us: $8958.00.
Call to a free standing radiology clinic further south in Silverdale:$1526.00 + $20.00 for contrast.
Call to the hospital in Port Angeles, north of us: $ 3101.70 for the facility fee. Gave me Radia’s number for the physician fee.
Call to Radia and left message.
Left message with patient.

Radia called back and the fee is $346.80, so that would be added to the $3101.70 at Olympic Medical Center.

Now I know the amount BILLED at five sites. However, that is not the amount my patient will PAY.

If the site is “in network” then the site has a contract with Premara Blue Cross, which states the amount that Premara is going to pay. The patient will get an EOB, an explanation of benefits, from the insurance. “Benefits” is an interesting choice of words. The patient has paid for the insurance so that they will cover the bills. Is that a “benefit”?

On the EOB, it will state the amount that was billed for the service. Next it will state the amount “allowed”. “Allowed” is misleading. To me it implies that the insurance has held the cost down. But the insurance “allowed” the site to be “in network” because the doctor/site signed a contract. So this is a contracted price or agreed upon price.

I want to know the allowed/contracted/agreed upon price.

Call to the WA State Office of the Insurance Commissioner. The office says that the patient should be able to request the allowed cost for a specific site. Each site has a separate contract with the health insurance, so the allowed cost could be different at each site.

Call to Premara Blue Cross. This time they say that it’s not that they refused the information, it’s that it was not available. Now the representative says that they need the “units or minutes billed.” I don’t know what that is, but I will find out. I ask if that is the only other thing that I need. They say yes, but I cannot contact the same rep directly. I have to go through the rigamarole each time: my name, my tax id, patient’s name, patient’s insurance identification number, my clinic address, fax number, phone number, sometimes the patient phone number. Usually I have to punch 4 or five of these into the automated system and then have to repeat it all when I reach a human being.

Call to Poulsbo. The units refer to 100 units of contrast. Some patients will need more, up to 200 units.

Call to Premara Blue Cross again. I go over everything with representative Hailey, who then wants to know the amount that Poulsbo is billing. Explained that I was told only the units were needed. She put me on hold and checked with Poulsbo. She is quoted the same price.

Continuing with call to Premara Blue Cross. Hailey has entered everything and doesn’t get a result. She says she doesn’t know. I explain that they have a contract with Poulsbo that names an actual amount. She transfers me to another department after 25 minutes. The representative there says that she can give the allowed amount information to the provider doing the test, that is, to Poulsbo. I explained that the WA State Office of the Insurance Commissioner says that a patient can indeed request that information. I asked if they are refusing it to the patient. Rep repeats that she can give it to that provider but not me. I offer to have the patient in for a visit and get them on speaker phone and again request the information. Without the information, I will strongly consider filing a complaint with the state insurance commission. She decides to transfer me. That’s at 30 min and I am again put on hold.

The call to Premara Blue Cross ended after 45 min and 37 seconds and the third representative in the provider relations department states that if they get a call from Poulsbo that they could tell THEM the contracted allowable amount. Again stated that the insurance commissioner’s office says that the patient can request the amount. Are they and will they refuse it to the patient? Representative Whitney says that she has access only to provider accounts and that the contract with Poulsbo is proprietary information*. I say that I think health insurance is also a contract between the patient and the insurance and surely the patient can ask what it will cost in advance. I stated that I would be calling the patient and the state insurance commissioner’s office again.

I talk to the patient. She will now call the insurance and ask the “allowed” amount for this site. I give her the diagnosis code, CPT code and units billed.

She calls back. Premara says “around $600.00”.

I call Poulsbo and ask if they will check the contracted amount. They call Premara. They call me back.

If she only has 100 units of contrast, the CT of the abdomen and pelvis with and without contrast will cost her $641.00, as the “allowed” amount by contract between her insurance and the radiology site.

I still do not know the “allowed”/contracted amount for the other four sites, so I have failed in my attempt at comparing price tags. I only know the amount the sites would bill. The “allowed”/contracted amount for each site could be different. The hospitals bill more because they have a “facility” fee. I think this means that they are allowed to factor in various hospital costs. Even so, it seems outrageous that one hospital bills twice as much as the other two and more than six times as much as the least expensive site, but the allowed amount might be lower then the billed amount.

I don’t think this is a free market. I think it is an obscured market. And this is just one procedure and one single charge. Think of a hospital stay.
AIM Specialty Health http://aimspecialtyhealth.com/about-aim/guidelines
Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner is at http://www.insurance.wa.gov/
Premara Blue Cross https://www.premera.com/wa/visitor/
* When I called about the head MRI, why wasn’t the information about what is billed at different sites proprietary then?

This was initially posted on everything2 on Friday, May 16, 2014.

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sometimes the hummingbird

sometimes the hummingbird

Boa cat
meows
the meow that means she’s caught something
and wants to show me

and I go to look
it is a hummingbird
probably immature
dead

I pat her and praise her
Good Boa
I see what you caught

She taps the hummingbird
around the room a few times
but it is dead

so she eats it

and I’m crying

sometimes the hummingbird
gets eaten

and that is ok

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Alcohol

Let’s talk about alcohol.

I am a family practice physician and I talk to people of all ages about alcohol. The current recommendation is no more than one drink daily for women and two drinks daily for men, no saving it up for the weekend.

“What?” you say “No way. Come on, that’s ridiculous.”

My patients don’t say “That’s ridiculous.” After all, they are paying me to do a physical exam and a preventative exam. I am supposed to give them advice. But what is the basis for that?

One drink is defined as a regulation 12 oz beer or 6 ounces of wine or one ounce of hard liquor. If it is a high alcohol beer or wine, the amount is less.

It is NOT the liver doctors that have given us these numbers. It is the cardiologists, the heart doctors. One drink in women or two in men, lowers blood pressure and in general, has good effects. Go over that daily and there is a rebound in blood pressure as the alcohol wears off. Alcohol works in the same way as benzodiazepines: it makes people less anxious and more relaxed and lowers inhibitions. Both alcohol and benzodiazepines are addictive in the long term.

Cardiologists qualify this recommendation as follows: there is no recommended daily amount of alcohol that is considered heart protective because there are too many alcoholics. The recommended daily amount of alcohol for an alcoholic is none. The recommended daily amount of alcohol for the general population is none.

Alcohol withdrawal can be very very dangerous medically. I think that the three most difficult things to quit are heroin, methamphetamines and cigarettes, but alcohol is more dangerous. In heroin withdrawal all of the pain receptors fire at once, so it is torture, but people don’t die. With serious alcohol withdrawal, the blood pressure skyrockets and the person can have seizures, a stroke, a heart attack, delerium tremens and can die. In the hospital, benzodiazepines are used to slow the withdrawal, replacing alcohol in a controlled manner.

Alcohol does more than affect the blood pressure. Over time, alcohol can damage the heart and lead to congestive heart failure. Of course, you know that it can damage the liver and lead to cirrhosis. Cirrhosis is sneaky: as long as there are a few functioning liver cells, the lab work can look pretty normal. The liver makes proteins for the blood and makes proteins that allow our blood to clot. Once there aren’t enough healthy cells to make those proteins, alcoholics will bleed quite spectacularly. If the amount of the protein albumin in their blood is low, fluid leaks from the blood into the tissues: so whatever part is “dependent”, that is, lowest, will be swollen. Alcoholics can have legs with swelling where I can push with my finger and there is a two or three cm dimple. Alcohol also can lead to gastritis and ulcers. If someone can’t clot and they are vomiting blood from an ulcer, the doctor gets a tummyache too, from worrying. Ow. The liver is also supposed to filter all of the blood in the body. As the liver gets blocked with dead liver cells, the blood starts to bypass it. The bypass is through blood vessels in the stomach. Remember that person vomiting blood? The swollen vessels in the stomach are called varicies and we don’t like them to bleed. They are big, swollen and can bleed really really fast. The person can die. I don’t like transfusing and really don’t like transfusing 12 units of blood. In end stage alcoholism, the liver no longer lowers the blood level of ammonia. Ammonia crosses the blood brain barrier and poisons the brain. We haven’t even discussed the lack of vitamin B12 and thiamine which can cause unraveling of the myelin sheaths on the long fibers in the spinal cord: this means that the person gets permanent asterixis and “walks like a drunk” even when they are sober. I’m sure I haven’t remembered all of the consequences of alcohol, but that will do for now, right?

How much alcohol daily causes the above charming picture? We Don’t Know. Really. And it is not okay to do randomized double blinded clinical trials to find out. Same with pregnant women: we don’t know if there is a safe amount of alcohol during pregnancy and we bloody well can’t test it. It is safer not to drink while you are pregnant.

In clinic, I ask how much people drink. If they say 1-2 drinks daily, I ask what the drink is. Sometimes they look confused. I explain that I have one patient who has two drinks a day: however, it is a 12 ounce glass with a little ice and a lot of whiskey. I asked him to estimate how much whiskey and he said, “6-8 ounces.” That is, each glass is 6-8 ounces. His blood pressure is not under control and so far I feel like a failure as a doctor with him; he is NOT reducing the amount. In medical school, the two jokes were: How much alcohol is too much? More than your doctor drinks. And: How much does the patient drink? Double or triple what they tell us.

The popular word in college used to be that you could drink one drink an hour and still be “okay”. “Okay” to drive and it would wear off. Sorry, nope. Breathalyzers are now pretty cheap; buy one if you are drinking more than the 1-2 per day. And the college students that are binge drinking 6-8 or more drinks on Friday and Saturday. It DOES have long term effects and it IS doing damage.

Lastly, sleep and depression. If you are having trouble sleeping, don’t drink. No alcohol at all. Alcohol is a depressant. It helps people to fall asleep. But they do not have “normal sleep architecture” and it works AGAINST them staying asleep. People often wake up as the alcohol wears off. And the blood pressure is having that rebound, remember, and often their heart will race. That is withdrawal. If you are having trouble sleeping or you are depressed, do not take a depressant. It makes it worse.

I saw a nineteen year old in clinic who admitted to “occasional” heroin use. “But I’m not addicted,” she said. I said, “Well, that’s good. But I took care of a bunch of people undergoing heroin withdrawal while I was in residency and it looked like one of the most painful things on the planet. So I would advise you to quit while you are ahead.” I saw her a year later and she said, “When I tried to quit, it WAS hard. I was addicted and didn’t know it. I’m off now and I won’t go back.” So if you tell me, no problem, I can quit alcohol any time, I say more power to you. Show me. And if it’s harder than you think, get help.